| Len's cousin
Moving South
M: [We were] northern, on the White Sea. Yes, and then we went down South. Right across Russia, we went. From the North, right down South.
L: How did that happen? You told me yesterday
M: How did it happen? Oh, in 1941, when the war broke out between the Germans and the Russians, there was an agreement between the Russian government and the Polish exile government in London to free all the Polish citizens from all the jails and from exile, and the form a Polish legion. And we were, most of us, were all heading down South.
But a funny thing happened before we went South. Like, we were told places where we could go and where we couldn’t go. And we found out that there was only one place we could go, is down South, like. We couldn’t go to the Far East, we couldn’t go to European Russia, and we couldn’t go, also, to Moscow or any capital city, of a state, as former inmates of a camp, we couldn’t go to any of these places, either. So, the only thing left to us if we wanted to go was to go South.
L: Yes, they told you you were free to go anywhere you wanted, except...
M: That’s right, but the only place we could go was down South. Now, we had one fellow in our camp that he had someone who [he] knew in the city of Astrakhan. Astrakhan is a port city on the Caspian Sea. And he said he was going to Astrakhan. Since he’s a free man, he goes to Astrakhan. And all of a sudden, the whole camp said, “We are going to Astrakhan.” We didn’t know where to go, we didn’t know any difference between one place and another. We didn’t know anything. If this guy goes to Astrakhan, we all go to Astrakhan.
When we came to take our documents, you know -- they had to issue us documents. In Russia, you can’t go without a document. So the KGB all of a sudden said that it’s some kind of a plot. What do you mean, you are all going to Astrakhan? What have you got to do in Astrakhan? If one fellow goes to Astrakhan, they could understand. But 5000 people, everybody goes to Astrakhan, what’s in Astrakhan for you?
So, all of a sudden, there developed a shortage of documents. They got no documents! If you got no documents, you can’t go. And that was already in August. You see, the war broke out in June [He meant the invasion of Russia by Germany]. By the time they freed us, you know, it was July, and that was already August.
And there, if you don’t go away, in August, already, very early in the beginning of September, the river freezes. The only communication we had was by boat. That was the only way we could get out of there. No railway, nothing. So, we figured if we don’t go away within at least a month, we’ll be stuck here for the winter. And we thought... And that was really their plan. That was a ploy by them to keep us there because they didn’t want us to leave. They needed our labor. They begged us, as a matter of fact, to stay. And they found a real excuse how to keep us.
But we got wind of it, you know, and we went to the provincial supulite [tape unclear]. And they thought we are going with the demonstration. And they’re very afraid of.. They don’t like any trouble as much of a police state as it was. And they still didn’t like any shred of trouble. They wanted you to be regimented, to do exactly what they want, and don’t show any defiance or anything. And a demonstration is trouble, as far as they are concerned.
And all of a sudden, documents showed up in the offices of the KGB. But they came with another ploy. We went in to Documents, so they divided each family. For half a family they got documents, for half they haven’t.
Well, if you got documents, take half of the camp, the families, and give them documents and let them go. No. Every family, the father got the documents for the mother there is none. For two kids there is, for three kids there isn’t, you know.
Sonia: You can’t leave.
M: They divided the families so you can’t stay, you can’t leave. But, anyway, we kept on milling around in that town, and we said we are not going to leave. We went to the KGB office, and we sat there. It was a sit-down strike. We didn’t say anything, but we are not going away. We want documents.
L: And, they can’t send you to Siberia, because you are already there.
M: Oh, no, they can’t send you. There is nothing they could do. There was nothing they could do to us, any more. Anyway, eventually, they had documents. They gave us documents and we went away by boat. Three days we had to go by boat, you know, to another state, and there was a railway station, and they gave us cattle cars again, and it took us about two and a half months to go by these cattle cars down south.
L: You told me yesterday that there was some official who advised you that the North is better than the South
M: Well, actually, the KGB man, who delivered to us the freedom speech that we are free. And when we told him that we are planning to leave, he told us that we will rue the day that we leave the North for the South. Because it’s a lot harder to survive in the South than it is in the North. And it turned out he was true. A lot more of our people perished in the South than they perished in the North. In the South, it was murder. People were hungry, people were sick. The hot weather, there were a lot more sicknesses.
In the North, we were clean. There was no lice. We had bath house, we used to go often. We had a steam bath house, we used to go. In the summer, we were able to go to the river for a swim, and somehow we managed to keep clean, where in the South, the native population was awfully dirty, and they were infested with lice and all kinds of things. It was terrible.
You go to the steam bath and you wash yourself, and you change your underwear, you change your clothes.
As soon as you touch a native, bingo! You are full of it again. There was no way of getting away from it.
Sonia: [partially inaudible] ...I was swollen [?]. People ... just to survive. They were living with the natives, Kazaks. And the way they lived. Everything is on the floor. They sleep and they eat on the floor. ...dirty. They never washed, they never, never. It’s terrible... for us, for the Polish Jews. They couldn’t get used to it. Because we got two days till they pack us on the train, go back to Poland.
And it was flooded. The area where we lived was flooded, so they took the people out of the flooded places, and they put us in the homes with the natives, just for two days. We can die there, just looking at them. The way they make the bread, how dirty. They never washed the hands. There is no sanitary, no papers, no toilets. It’s just terrible.
M: As a matter of fact, I’ve been there from ‘41 to ‘46. I’ve seen only one native who was really an emancipated man. He was acting like a Russian. One! The only one.
S: Maybe he was in Europe
M: He was. He was in the Army. He would sit down and eat by a table. He would, like for supper, he would spread a cloth on the table, he had knives, forks, he slept in a bed. He lived like a European. And the rest of them... I have known really, as I said, when my boss was an assistant vice-premier of the province, was a high enough fellow, but he was 100% native. He wouldn’t get anything out of the Russians. He was 100% native. And all of them were the same.
Oh, now I remember. I had in mind something to tell you what happened. I worked in an organization that collected cattle from the farmers in lieu of taxes. And we used to drive them to town.
L: You were a cowboy.
M: Yes, that was exactly what I did. I was going on cattle drives, and we were tending cattle. Now, in the summer, there were times when there was no cattle drives because the farmers were too busy on the fields, and they didn’t bring in any cattle in lieu of taxes. They didn’t have the time for it. And we were sort of slack. |
